Tony, I went to the MS link that you suggested (see below) and it indeed says that "The Arrange by Conversation arrangement shows your e-mail items grouped by message subject or 'thread.'" Instead of arranging by subject, I arranged my view by "conversation" and got exactly the same result that I had gotten when viewing by subject, i.e. MS Outlook looks only at the subject line when deciding on threads, conversations, subjects, or whatever you want to call it. I am, BTW, using Outlook 2007 on Windows XP SP2 and cannot vouch for Outlooks behavior in other versions or configurations. So, no matter what I do, it seems impossible for me to duplicate in Outlook what Gabor pointed out to me when he said, " You can see how it looks to most readers by viewing it on gmane: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.r.general/78065 Note that even though the subject has been changed its still listed as a child of another message rather than the start of a new thread." I did check and of course Gabor is correct. This subject does need to be put to bed. I have reread the posting guide for R-help at http://www.r-project.org/ and it does indeed say "Do please create a new email message when posting to the list rather than replying to a previous message and simply changing the subject line! This allows sensible threading in the mailing list archives (and many users e-mail readers)." To be honest, I probably read this 3 years ago when I subscribed to the list but, because my email reader doesn't behave this way, I just forgot about it. I email so many people during the day that I frequently hit reply to a previous message and then change the subject if appropriate. So, not to justify my behavior, but would it be possible for the R mail server to somehow check and see if the subject heading on a thread has been changed and then return-to-sender with a standard message explaining everything we have been through tonight? If Patrick Connolly sees this enough to have a standard message he sends out and Martin Maechler commented on it in the past, perhaps other Windows users of Outlook are doing the same thing I did. Rest assured that I have learned my lesson and won't repeat the same mistake, but if such a filter was put in place at the R mail server level, perhaps it would save the non-Outlook users a lot of aggravation. These exchanges have been edifying and I thank all for their patience and explanations. Mark Mark W. Kimpel MD (317) 490-5129 Work, & Mobile (317) 663-0513 Home (no voice mail please) 1-(317)-536-2730 FAX -----Original Message----- From: Tony Plate [mailto:tplate@acm.org] Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 8:08 PM To: Kimpel, Mark William Cc: r-help at stat.math.ethz.ch; bioconductor at stat.math.ethz.ch Subject: Re: [R] Outlook does threading Your final paragraph has the take-home message for everyone (not just MS Outlook users): "just create, from scratch, a new message when initiating a new subject." Viewing threads can be completely different to sorting based on the subject line. Your initial post with the subject "regexpr and parsing question" was in fact a reply to the message from Gabor Grothendick in the thread "Re: [R] change plotting symbol for groups in trellis graph." (I can see this by looking at the header information: I see a "In-reply-to:" header item.) When I view threads in the Thunderbird mail reader, your post and replies with the subject "regexpr and parsing question" do in fact show up under the thread in which Gabor's message appeared, not in their own thread. According to http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/HA011356671033.aspx, one can view threads in Outlook by selecting "View->Arrange By->Conversation". Hope this helps (in case the horse was not thoroughly dead already.) -- Tony Plate Kimpel, Mark William wrote: > See below for Bert Gunter's off list reply to me (which I do > appreciate). I'm putting it back on the list because it seems there is > still confusion regarding the difference between threading and sorting > by subject. I thought the example I will give below will serve as > instructional for other Outlook users who may be similarly confused as I > was (am?). > > Per Bert's instructions, I just set up my inbox to sort by subject. I > sent one email to myself with the subject "test1" and then replied to it > without changing the subject. The reply correctly went to "test1" in the > inbox sorter. I then changed the subject heading in the test1 reply to > "test2" and sent it to myself. This time Outlook re-categorized it and > put it in a separate compartment in the view called "test2". > > If Outlook can do threading the way the R mail server does, I don't > think this is the way to do it. > > Unless someone has an idea of how to correctly set up Outlook to do > threading in the manner that the R mail server does, I think the message > for us Outlook users is to just create, from scratch, a new message when > initiating a new subject. > > Thanks for all your help. > > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bert Gunter [mailto:gunter.berton at gene.com] > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 7:03 PM > To: Kimpel, Mark William > Subject: Outlook does threading > > Mark: > > No need to bother the R list with this. Outlook does threading. Just > sort on > Subject in the viewer. > > Bert Gunter > Genentech Nonclinical Statistics > South San Francisco, CA 94404 > 650-467-7374 > > -----Original Message----- > From: r-help-bounces at stat.math.ethz.ch > [mailto:r-help-bounces at stat.math.ethz.ch] On Behalf Of Kimpel, Mark > William > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 3:36 PM > To: Peter Dalgaard > Cc: r-help at stat.math.ethz.ch; bioconductor at stat.math.ethz.ch > Subject: Re: [R] possible spam alert > > Peter, > > Thanks you for your explanation, I had taken Mr. Connolly's message to > me to imply that I was not changing the subject line. I use MS Outlook > 2007 and, unless I am just not seeing it, Outlook does not normally > display the "in reply to" header, I was under the mistaken impression > that that was what the Subject line was for. See, for example, the > header to your message to me below. Outlook will, however, sort messages > by Subject, and that is what I thought was meant by threading. > > Well, I learned something today and apologize for any inconvenience my > posts may have caused. > > BTW, I use Outlook because it is supported by my university server and > will synch my appointments and contacts with my PDA, which runs Windows > CE. If anyone has a suggestion for me of a better email program that > will provide proper threading AND work with a MS email server and synch > with Windows CE, I'd love to hear it. > > Thanks again, > > Mark > > Mark W. Kimpel MD > > > > (317) 490-5129 Work, & Mobile > > > > (317) 663-0513 Home (no voice mail please) > > 1-(317)-536-2730 FAX > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Dalgaard [mailto:p.dalgaard at biostat.ku.dk] > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 6:25 PM > To: Kimpel, Mark William > Cc: bioconductor at stat.math.ethz.ch; r-help at stat.math.ethz.ch > Subject: Re: [R] possible spam alert > > Kimpel, Mark William wrote: > >>The last two times I have originated message threads on R or >>Bioconductor I have received the message included below from someone >>named Patrick Connolly. Both times I was the originator of the message >>thread and used what I thought was a unique subject line that > > explained > >>as best I could what my question was. Patrick seems to be implying > > that > >>I am abusing the R and BioC help newsgroups in this fashion. >> >>When I emailed him to give me a specific example, he did not reply. > > The > >>most recent thread that he seems concerned about was to the R list and >>was entitled "regexpr and parsing question" . I believe the previous >>post of mine that he had problems with was to the BioC list but I > > can't > >>remember its subject. >> >>Is this spam? >> > > No. Breach of netiquette, yes. > > The message in question starts a new thread, yet contains an > In-Reply-To: header line, which presumably means that you started > writing the message as a reply to something completely unrelated, > specifically: "Re: [R] change plotting symbol for groups in trellis > graph". You should not do that, unless you know how to remove the > In-Reply-To line (and this is not obvious in many mail clients); > changing the subject is not sufficient. > >>If I am doing this correctly, you should see the subject "possible > > spam > >>alert" in the subject header of THIS message. >> >>Would the moderators of the lists please check and see if I am doing >>some wrong and, if not, inform Mr. Connolly that I am not. If others >>have received this message in error, it is possible it is spam and > > users > >>should be alerted. >> >>Thanks, >> >>Mark >> >>Mark W. Kimpel MD >> >> >> >> >> >>Official Business Address: >> >> >> >>Department of Psychiatry >> >>Indiana University School of Medicine >> >>PR M116 >> >>Institute of Psychiatric Research >> >>791 Union Drive >> >>Indianapolis, IN 46202 >> >> >>This is a request to anyone who starts a new subject to begin with a > > new > >>message and NOT reply to an existing one. If your mail client is any >>good, it's very simple to set up an alias (mine is simply 'r') so that >>the tedious task of typing 'r-help at stat.math.ethz.ch' is unnecessary > > and > >>it's quicker than scrolling through an address book. >>It's also quicker than deleting the previous subject. >> >>Most mornings, I have over a screenful of messages mostly from R-help >>and it's very useful to have them threaded. However, the usefulness > > of > >>threading is lost when posters reply to a message and then change the >>subject instead of creating a new message. >> >>People who don't have a mail client that can display email in threads >>are probably unaware that this sort of thing can happen in ones that > > do: > >> >> 37 N 25 Jan Luis Silva ( 34) [R] plot/screen >> 38 N 25 Jan Uwe Ligges ( 55) `-> >> 39 N 25 Jan Fernando Henrique Ferra ( 20) [R] Plotting coloured >>histograms >>-> 40 N 26 Jan Mohamed A. Kerasha ( 12) |->[R] Distributions. >> 41 N 26 Jan ripley at stats.ox.ac.uk ( 26) | |-> >> 42 26 Jan Qin Xin ( 9) | `->[R] how could I > > add > >>legends >> 43 27 Jan Ko-Kang Kevin Wang ( 31) | `-> >> 44 N 26 Jan Remigijus Lapinskas ( 32) |->Re: [R] Plotting >>coloured his >> 45 N 26 Jan Damon Wischik (125) `-> >> 46 N 25 Jan Rex_Bryan at urscorp.com ( 10) [R] plotting > > primatives, > >>ellipse >> 47 N 25 Jan Uwe Ligges ( 19) `-> >> >> >>As Martin Maechler explained some time ago, it also screws up the >>archives for a similar reason. >> >>Your cooperation will be greatly appreciated. >> >>best >> >> > > > ______________________________________________ > R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. > > ______________________________________________ > R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. >