The instruction to read the posting guide is appended to every message that appears in R-help mailing list as follows : ______________________________________________ R-help@stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html But no link to the posting guide in the footed of messages that appear to BioConductor mail. Instead we get : _______________________________________________ Bioconductor mailing list Bioconductor@stat.math.ethz.ch https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/bioconductor Is this because no posting guide suitable for BioConductor has been developed ? I am sure one can easily adapt from the R-help one. Thank you. Regards, Adai

On Apr 8, 2005 1:09 PM, Adaikalavan Ramasamy <ramasamy@cancer.org.uk> wrote: > > Is this because no posting guide suitable for BioConductor has been > developed ? I am sure one can easily adapt from the R-help one. Why don't you take the first stab at it? best, -tony "Commit early,commit often, and commit in a repository from which we can easily roll-back your mistakes" (AJR, 4Jan05). A.J. Rossini blindglobe@gmail.com

"A.J. Rossini" <blindglobe@gmail.com> writes: > On Apr 8, 2005 1:09 PM, Adaikalavan Ramasamy <ramasamy@cancer.org.uk> wrote: > >> >> Is this because no posting guide suitable for BioConductor has been >> developed ? I am sure one can easily adapt from the R-help one. > > Why don't you take the first stab at it? I'm +1 on this idea :-) If someone creates a Bioconductor specific posting guide (and there is reasonable consensus in the community that it is liked) I will get it posted and "footed"? + seth

See comments below. On Fri, 2005-04-08 at 14:15 +0100, Jan T. Kim wrote: > Hi Adai, <snip> > But is there such a problem in BioC? Personally, I'm quite a happy > BioC subscriber and don't see any need to try and control the amount > of thoughtless postings here. As you mention below, this is an inter-disciplinary field and thus sometimes I find excellent questions posted here do not attract sufficient responses because they are poorly written. But maybe this is a case of "R has one, so why not BioConductor" envy ? > It is very important to consider the fact that BioC is an > interdisciplinary audience much more than r-help. If bioscientists > (with a spotty statistics background) perceive BioC as a bunch of > arrogant know-it-alls, this is detrimental to interdisciplinary > communication at the core of BioC's subject area. This is an important point. > Therefore, if a BioC posting guide is written, I strongly recommend to > take great care to avoid any suspicion of arrogance and unwillingness > to entertain the sometimes difficult / boring / seemingly unknowledgeable > processes of interdisciplinary communication. As a biologist who has > moved into computational biology, I've seen a few times how easy it is > to be perceived as arrogant, and how difficult it is to convince people > otherwise once they got this impression. Again an excellent point. I have taken this into consideration and have hopefully incorporated into the posting guide. I look forward towards your comments and ideas. > It seems to me that the best way to avoid this risk is to not have a > posting guide, at least not one in the r-help style -- unless there are Yes, I have taken some of the more important points from R-help posting and rearranged it to be more "friendly". > strong reasons in favour of that. But if it ain't broke, don't fix it. True. But it seems that a few people have expressed a desire for a posting guide. So if not me, then someone else will fix it. > Best regards, Jan

Good idea, couple of minor suggestions. I'd change 1 or 3 this to something along these lines to stress that all packages can be browsed for functions, their definitions and other package documentation using the html help. This is useful even if you don't know exactly what a function is or to get an overview of what a package can do. Alternatively use help.start() to start the HTML help where you can search functions or browse packages for documentation, function listings and definitions. and/or Read any relevant BioConductor documentations such as the vignettes (http://www.bioconductor.org/viglistingindex.html). Other materials can be found on the "Documents" section of the main BioConductor webpage or by browsing the package listings in the HTML help. Maybe point 4 to include the link for the bioC archives as it's sometimes easier to use this to follow threads or to find something. Checked the BioConductor mailing archives (http://files.protsuggest.org/cgi-bin/biocond.cgi) or the R-help mailing archives (http://maths.newcastle.edu.au/~rking/R/) if your question has been asked (and answered) before. The BioConductor mailing archives can also be browsed by date, author or thread (https://www.stat.math.ethz.ch/pipermail/bioconductor/). Maybe also mention that the functions traceback() and debug() are useful for identifying the source of the problem. This would also help save the inevitable 'what does traceback() say' reply. In the optional stuff I would say that the attachments can be viewed on the html archives as sometimes when attachments are included I wonder how many BioC users are actually aware they can be viewed. 4. The only allowed attachment is PS, PDF, JPG, PNG (?) and mail must be less that 40 kb in size. Otherwise your mail will require administrator approval before being posted. 4. The only allowed attachments are PS, PDF, JPG, PNG (?) and mail must be less that 40 kb in size. Otherwise your mail will require administrator approval before being posted. Be aware that attachments are not included in the Bioconductor Digest emails but can be viewed on the mailing archives (https://www.stat.math.ethz.ch/pipermail/bioconductor/). Finally, to help Gordon out how about 'if your question regards Limma designs, contrasts or statistics then have you checked the latest limma users guide' ;-) HTH, Matt #### >Dear Tony, > >Do you have any comments on the draft of the BioConductor posting guide >( http://tinyurl.com/3kswc ). > >Thank you. > >Regards, Adai

Hi Adai, Just one editorial comment: It seems to me the guide is heavy on `how', but says very little about `why'. I think for newcomers it may be helpful to know why they are being asked to follow the guide (I guess mostly to save bandwidth and people's time). Just my $0.02 (which went up in value yesterday!) Andy > From: Adaikalavan Ramasamy > > Dear Matthew Hannah and Kasper Hansen, > > Thank you for your comments. I agree with Kasper that the "Howto get > help in BioConductor" should be kept a separate section. I intend the > posting guide to concise in order to encourage people to read it. > > In view of the recent comments, I think it might be be useful to have > two separate sections on "HOWTO get help with R and BioConductor" and > "HOWTO report a problem efficiently" and link to the posting guide and > different groups of people would view it differently. It would be > another couple of weeks before I am able to do this. If anyone would > like to please feel free to add on to the wiki. > > Thank you. > > Regards, Adai > > > On Thu, 2005-04-14 at 10:56 +0200, Kasper Daniel Hansen wrote: > > I agree with most of these points. But in fact I feel that > it belongs to > > a proper "how to get help with Bioconductor" guide, which I > have had > > some plans for writing for a while (I do not have time to > do it within > > say the next month or so). Basically there are so many > techniques that > > it really requires a small guide. > > > > But perhaps the points below should be included in the > posting guide. We > > can always revise it, if and when the help-guide gets made by me or > > another helpful soul. > > > > Kasper > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 14, 2005 at 09:45:17AM +0200, Matthew Hannah wrote: > > > Good idea, couple of minor suggestions. > > > > > > I'd change 1 or 3 this to something along these lines to > stress that all > > > packages can be browsed for functions, their definitions and other > > > package documentation using the html help. This is useful > even if you > > > don't know exactly what a function is or to get an > overview of what a > > > package can do. > > > > > > Alternatively use help.start() to start the HTML help > where you can > > > search functions or browse packages for documentation, > function listings > > > and definitions. > > > > > > and/or > > > > > > Read any relevant BioConductor documentations such as the > vignettes > > > (http://www.bioconductor.org/viglistingindex.html). Other > materials can > > > be found on the "Documents" section of the main > BioConductor webpage or > > > by browsing the package listings in the HTML help. > > > > > > > > > Maybe point 4 to include the link for the bioC archives as it's > > > sometimes easier to use this to follow threads or to find > something. > > > Checked the BioConductor mailing archives > > > (http://files.protsuggest.org/cgi-bin/biocond.cgi) or the > R-help mailing > > > archives (http://maths.newcastle.edu.au/~rking/R/) if > your question has > > > been asked (and answered) before. The BioConductor > mailing archives can > > > also be browsed by date, author or thread > > > (https://www.stat.math.ethz.ch/pipermail/bioconductor/). > > > > > > > > > Maybe also mention that the functions traceback() and > debug() are useful > > > for identifying the source of the problem. This would > also help save the > > > inevitable 'what does traceback() say' reply. > > > > > > > > > > > > In the optional stuff I would say that the attachments > can be viewed on > > > the html archives as sometimes when attachments are > included I wonder > > > how many BioC users are actually aware they can be viewed. > > > 4. The only allowed attachment is PS, PDF, JPG, PNG (?) > and mail must be > > > less that 40 kb in size. Otherwise your mail will require > administrator > > > approval before being posted. > > > > > > 4. The only allowed attachments are PS, PDF, JPG, PNG (?) > and mail must > > > be less that 40 kb in size. Otherwise your mail will require > > > administrator approval before being posted. Be aware that > attachments > > > are not included in the Bioconductor Digest emails but > can be viewed on > > > the mailing archives > > > (https://www.stat.math.ethz.ch/pipermail/bioconductor/). > > > > > > > > > Finally, to help Gordon out how about 'if your question > regards Limma > > > designs, contrasts or statistics then have you checked > the latest limma > > > users guide' ;-) > > > > > > HTH, > > > Matt > > > > > > > > > #### > > > >Dear Tony, > > > > > > > >Do you have any comments on the draft of the > BioConductor posting guide > > > >( http://tinyurl.com/3kswc ). > > > > > > > >Thank you. > > > > > > > >Regards, Adai > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Bioconductor mailing list > > > Bioconductor@stat.math.ethz.ch > > > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/bioconductor > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bioconductor mailing list > Bioconductor@stat.math.ethz.ch > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/bioconductor > > >