DESeq2, no replicate
2
0
Entering edit mode
Mahtetie • 0
@mahtetie-14115
Last seen 6.6 years ago
Germany

Hello,

I'm working on a RNAseq dataset with two passages and no replicate!

the STAR-HTSeq output with any of:

dds <- DESeq(ddsHTSeq)
dds <- DESeq(ddsHTSeq, minReplicatesForReplace=Inf, betaPrior=T, modelMatrixType="expanded")
dds <- DESeq(ddsHTSeq, betaPrior=T, modelMatrixType="expanded")
dds <- DESeq(ddsHTSeq, minReplicatesForReplace=Inf)

then something like resDF_DW_P2 <- results(dds, contrast=c("group", "DF1_P2", "DW2_P2"), ref= "EV_P2") gives the DEG list with padj values ~0.99.  

was wondering which one is the correct option to proceed. 

would you think it is correct if I only consider the p-values instead of p-adj values?

Many thanks

Mahtetie

deseq2 no replicates high p-adj values • 10k views
ADD COMMENT
1
Entering edit mode
@mikelove
Last seen 1 hour ago
United States

It's not surprising that there is no significance with no replicates, this is discussed in this paragraph in ?DESeq:

"Experiments without replicates do not allow for estimation of the dispersion of counts around the expected value for each group, which is critical for differential expression analysis. ... We provide this approach for data exploration only, but for accurately identifying differential expression, biological replicates are required."

You should not use unadjusted p-values.

ADD COMMENT
0
Entering edit mode

@Michael Love Hi I wish to know as I have 8 treatment with 3 biological replicate. How to prepare data to generate matrix for DESeq2 input, 1R1, 1R2, 1R3, 2R1, 2R2, 2R3...... or individual treatment

ADD REPLY
1
Entering edit mode
johnmcma ▴ 10
@johnmcma-12132
Last seen 23 months ago
United States

DESeq(2) and edgeR are not intended to be used with designs with less than 3 replicates. For those designs, NOIseq or GFOLD may be better choices, but it's still not a good idea to draw conclusions based on their results.

ADD COMMENT
2
Entering edit mode

I agree with Michael Love.

As the senior author of the edgeR project, I can tell you 100% that edgeR was always intended to be used with any design that included any degree of replication. It is certainly not restricted to n=3 or more. I am sceptical that NOIseq or GFOLD would give better performance at low replicate numbers.

You can see edgeR demonstrated in this workflow with n=2 in each group: https://f1000research.com/articles/5-1438

You can see edgeR demonstrated here for the smallest possible design with just three libraries in total (n=1 vs n=2): https://www.degruyter.com/doi/10.1515/sagmb-2017-0010

ADD REPLY
0
Entering edit mode

For residual degrees of freedom between 1 and 3, there’s nothing in particular about DESeq2 or edgeR which would make it not designed for these sample sizes. We compared favorably to GFOLD in the DESeq2 paper, and to NOISeq in Schurch 2016.

In the DESeq2 paper we describe our implementation of a modification to the dispersion prior variance estimation that is necessary for degrees of freedom in this range.

ADD REPLY
0
Entering edit mode

@Michael Love Hi I wish to know as I have 8 treatment with 3 biological replicate. How to prepare data to generate matrix for DESeq2 input, 1R1, 1R2, 1R3, 2R1, 2R2, 2R3...... or individual treatment

ADD REPLY
0
Entering edit mode

Have a column in the colData of the dataset called condition, a factor with 8 levels. Then specify design=~condition. See our vignette and workflow for more details.

ADD REPLY
0
Entering edit mode

@Michael Love Thanks for your response and extremely Sorry for late reply. Michael I checked the vignette it states about how to merge technical replicate with collapse function but neither in vignette nor google search I could find how to write and handles replicates of a condition. How deseq2 understand these are biological replicates. I put data in excel as 1_R1, 1_R2, 1_R3 in first three column and 2_R1, 2_R2, 2_R3 in next column saved as csv, followed by read.csv in R and read.table (given condition) in R, it worked but is this correct way to do that? Kindly inform Thanks

ADD REPLY
0
Entering edit mode

DESeq2 automatically recognizes biological replicates when they share the same value in the condition variable (or whatever you name the variable in your design).

Do not put replicate number inside the condition variable. Just the condition of the sample.

ADD REPLY

Login before adding your answer.

Traffic: 644 users visited in the last hour
Help About
FAQ
Access RSS
API
Stats

Use of this site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy.

Powered by the version 2.3.6